Courtesy Circle Meeting:
The 17th of February


[Being an edited transcript of that event.]

The Lecture Hall

A large high-ceilinged room, its walls painted white. A
square window, with glazed panes, is centered in the east wall.
At the front (north) end of the hall is a wooden lectern, the
wall behind it covered in a board of soft cork. The room is
filled with rows of seats facing north.

Punzel asks, "Has everyone read my posting about courtesy in dueling?"

[Everybody nods.]

Punzel nods, "I just wanted to ask in case anyone needed to go to
read it while we wait for the meeting to start."

Punzel shrugs, "Well, as it is the Courtesy Circle, mayhap we
should start on time. Any who are late should be courteous in
their entering silently, aye?"

Punzel grins at Kyle, Ravelyn, Armsman Philo, Deirdre, Kissa,
Anabeth, Drusilla, Wiccania and Duraze.

[Everybody nods, smiles, listens, etc..]

Punzel says, "First, I would like to ask sera Anabeth about any who
have requested to be considered as new members in this past week."

Punzel smiles at Anabeth, "Sera?"

Anabeth says kindly to Punzel, " A ser Graventhorp did so request
to be a new member, no others."

Punzel nods to Anabeth, "I will post this publicly, then, that
members may offer objections if they have them. If none are
offered, he can be a member officially next Saturday."

Kyle says, "well, when I first heard of this I thought that
membership was quite exclusive"

Punzel shakes her head, "Nay, ser. You should read our publicly
posted documents."

Punzel smiles at Kyle.

Kyle says, "what is the duty of a member?"

Kyle nods, "circle just seems like a very close nite group to
me"

Punzel quotes, "All who show an honest desire to promote courtesy
and good etiquette in the Outer Bailey are welcome to join the
Courtesy Circle."

Punzel explains, "That is from our Charter."

Kyle says, "sounds good"

Punzel suggests to Kyle, "You should have a read through our
Charter, and the transcripts of our previous meetings, ser, and
see what you thnk."

Drusilla tells Kyle, "I have the charter here with me, if you
wish to read it, ser."

Punzel smiles at Watchwoman Judith, Kyle, Ravelyn, Armsman Philo,
Deirdre, Kissa, Anabeth, Drusilla, Wiccania and Duraze, "If all have
read the posting of my own ideas on courtesy in dueling, mayhap we
might begin our discussion."

Duraze politely asks Punzel, "Might you clarify the distinction
between a "Formal" and "Informal" Duel?"

Punzel smiles slightly, "I was hoping we would get to that question."

Punzel admits, "I found the distinction useful when ser Morte did
mention it last week, but in my own thinking afterward, I did
decide that Sanction here requires enough formallity ..."

Punzel shakes her head, "I think the distinction can be abandoned
for our purposes."

Punzel asks, "Does anyone disagree?"

Punzel admits pensively, "It might be possible to have a formal
duel that does not have sanction ... but I think sanctioned duels
are always formal."

Punzel explains, "An informal duel would have no seconds, for example."

Duraze nods agreeably, "Might I share a bit of thought, from
past experiences?"

Deirdre nods thoughtfully, "It is unlikely that an "informal"
unsactioned duel would be held courteously in any event"

Punzel nods to Duraze, "Of course, brother."

Armsman Philo nods agreeingly to Deirdre.
Ravelyn glances at Deirdre.
Watchwoman Judith nods agreeingly to Deirdre.
Punzel nods to Deirdre.
Duraze smiles thankfully at Punzel.

Ravelyn suggests, "Unless it were a practice of course."

Deirdre tells Ravelyn, "practice duels were considered
seperately"

Punzel reminds Ravelyn quietly, "Spars are a separate matter,
sera, as covered in my posting."

Duraze chuckles slightly, "Actually... The point I would make
is quite contrary to the supposition just made by sera Deirdre..."

Punzel says, "Respectful disagreement is welcome. It stimulates thought."

Duraze explains, "In this castle, I have never formally
participated in a sanctioned Duel. But, a certain ser and I
have settled disagreements before with a polite Gentleman's
Duel. This was conducted with live blades, but the intention
was not to draw blood."

Deirdre frowns thoughtfully, "that seems awfully risky with
live blades"

Punzel gently shushes at Deirdre, "Let us hear him out, sera."
Punzel listens respectfully to Duraze.
Deirdre gestures apologetically at you.
Punzel smiles reassuringly at Deirdre.

Duraze nods to Deirdre, "A Duel should involve risk, I do
believe. The very reason the ritual of Dueling does exist is to
show that both parties are willing to risk possible injury to
stand up for their beliefs and actions."

Armsman Philo nods firmly to Duraze.
Deirdre considers.
Watchwoman Judith ponders.
Anabeth nods thoughtfully to Duraze.

Punzel nods slowly, "Might we return to the topic of courtesy,
however?"

Duraze nods obligingly to Punzel, "I was just about to, aye..."

Duraze continues, "It does seem to me that as far as matters of
courteousy are involved, perhaps in a formal sense they need
only be discussed regarding Sanctioned Duels? I would think to
let it fall to Practice leaders to decide the level of
formality at their practices."

Punzel shakes her head, "I think that when we discuss courtesy,
we are not telling folk what they must do, but only advising
what is most courteous."

Anabeth gazes thoughtfully at Punzel.

Punzel says, "If an instructor does not require bowing, bowing is
still courteous."

Ravelyn smiles approvingly at Punzel.
Reiker nods.
Drusilla nods.
Kyle rubs his nose thoughtfully.

Deirdre adds, "Also, I think it wise to encourage some amount
of consistancy in sparring habits."

Armsman Philo asks, "Might we just then outline general
courteous guidelines applicable to ny duel, and not make
distinction?"

[General nodding.]

Punzel nods slowly to Armsman Philo, "An excellent idea, Armsman.
I like that idea much. Complex courtesy helps no one, I think."

Punzel admits, "Sanction is not a matter of courtesy, after all.
It is a separate issue entirely."

[Much nodding.]

Punzel nods pensively, "Then let us keep our conversation to
general courtesy in dueling ... what in my posting was listed
entirely under Practice Spars."

Punzel admits, "There was much there that is not general ... let
us stick with the general information."

Punzel begins, "For example, participants and audience should
respect the person in command, be it instructor or marshall ...
what think you?"

[Much nodding.]

Deirdre nods agreeably at Punzel, "That touches on the question I
had, actually"

Punzel nods encouragingly to Deirdre, "Please, sera. What is your
question?"

Deirdre says, "You mentioned the Instructor and the Marshall,
but not who they are, what the difference is, nor what their
responsibilities are"

Punzel smiles at Deirdre, "The instructor is the person leading a
sword practice. A marshall presides over a formal duel."

Deirdre nods, "That could be derived from context, but perhaps
could be elucidated more directly?"

Deirdre continues, "The only sanctioned duel I have witnessed
had no marshall until the last moment"

Punzel nods slowly, "Mayhap seconds need be made more aware of
their responsibility to choose a marshall ... but ... that may be a
separate issue ... and not one of courtesy."

Armsman Philo nods to Deirdre, "The last two I have seen, the
seconds did not know they were to agree on a marshall"

Deirdre says, "That may in fact be beyond the scope of our
discussion, then"

Punzel suggests, "Mayhap I might write and post a guide for
seconds on what their responsibilities are. I could investigate
further."

Armsman Philo nods, "Many do not seem to know"

Punzel admits, "Choosing no marshall until the last moment does
indeed seem to approach being a courtesy issue."

Punzel nods slowly, "In my posting on the courtesy of dueling, I
will have a section on the sanctioned duel, and the responsibilities
of seconds, for the information of all."

Deirdre agrees, "It was fortunate that someone deemed neutral
by both sides was present"

Punzel nods agreeingly, "I think this will be helpful. Thank you
for bringing it up, sera."

Punzel smiles at Deirdre.
Deirdre nods respectfully.

Kyle says, "well, im not a duelist or anything, so I dont realy
understand dueling, but why needs there to be a Marshall at all? "

Punzel smiles at Kyle, "The answer to that question is beyond the
scope of our discussion, ser."

Punzel explains, "A marshall is required for a duel to be sanctioned."

Punzel asks, "Other questions about courtesy in dueling?"
Punzel says, "Or suggestions, or comments?"

Ravelyn asks quietly, "Because the seconds do the speaking in
an official duel, is it considered appropriate to speak to your
opponent before the duel?"

Ravelyn adds, "May only the seconds converse?"

Punzel admits, "I think that to a certain extent depends on how
formal the participants wish to be."

[There followed a lengthy interruption by ser Lando.]

Punzel asks, "Where were we? We have only 20 minutes before the
tourney."

Deirdre tells Punzel, "we were discussing the necessity of the
Marshall"

Watchwoman Judith says, "What is consider courteous behaviour
for the winner and loser of a duel?"

Watchwoman Judith says, "Afterwards I mean?"

Punzel nods, "An excellent question."

Punzel says, "Both the winner and loser of a duel should be
respectful ... bowing or curtsying, and extending some word of
well-wishing and respect. ..."

Punzel asks, "Does anyone else have thoughts on this?"

Ravelyn mentions softly, "We were interupted before my question
concerning seconds could be properly answered."

Punzel blinks.

Punzel says, "Oh, I do not know if I even heard it. Might we
finish with this question before we turn to yours, and then the
Armsman's?"

Punzel continues, "I think we might also want to note that both
participants in a duel should consider the matter over which
they fought to be settled, and courtesy demands that they not
continue to argue it afterward."

Punzel asks Ravelyn, "Now, sera, what was the question you had
raised, which was not fully answered?"

Ravelyn repeats to Punzel, "Is it proper courtesy to converse with
your dueling opponent, one-on-one, without a mediator, if you
have a formal and urgent matter and your duel has been approved
by My Lord Chancellor?"

Punzel nods, "Ah ... yes ... I do remember we had started to
discuss this before our ... interruption."

Ravelyn adds, "Or must all arrangements be made by the
Seconds."

Punzel explains to Ravelyn, "To some extent that is to be decided
by the participants, I believe, depending on how formal they
wish the duel tobe ..."

Armsman Philo says, "It is custom for the two not to speak to
each other, but it is not law, or necessarily even courtesy"

Punzel admits, "I myself did enter mediation with Watchman Gareth
quite recently, when we both wanted to settle our matter peaceably ...
we chose to do so without our seconds, for our goal was peace, and
we felt we did not need their help."

Punzel nods agreeingly to Armsman Philo, "I think that is
correct. And can be situational."

Armsman Philo nods to Punzel.
Ravelyn smiles, "Thank you both. "

Armsman Philo says, " Is it courtesy to examine swords before the duel,
or merely sensical?"

Punzel thinks.

Punzel admits, "It seems courtesy to me, as it is an expression
of concern for your opponent and not only yourself ..."

Punzel says, "But I am willing to be convinced otherwise."

Deirdre comments, "I believe it is courtesy to extend your
sword for inspection. It is sensical to examine your own."

[Much nodding.]

Punzel says, "A good point, sera."

Kyle nods, "well I wanted to ask you personaly about joining
the courtisy circle"

Punzel nods to Kyle, "You should read the charter, ser. It gives
instruction on how to join."

Punzel smiles at Kyle.
Kyle nods.

Punzel adds, "And you should read the charter, anyway, before
committing to any guild."

Armsman Philo nods firmly.
Ravelyn murmurs inaudibly, "Quite right."
Deirdre nods agreeingly to you.
Anabeth nods softly.

Punzel asks, "Any last thoughts, before we end for this week?"

Ravelyn glances at Watchwoman Judith, Kyle, Chorus,
Armsman Philo, Deirdre, Reiker, you, Anabeth and Drusilla.

Punzel smiles, "I am sorry to be so rushed this time."
Watchwoman Judith grins, "The Contest begins soon"
Punzel nods gladly, "Then I will post our thoughts later."

Punzel curtsies to the lecture hall, "If you will all excuse me, I
should go to the Practice Room."



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